Cheryl-Anne inspires women to break free from years of societal conditioning and generational programming, and help them learn to love themselves into a happier and more fulfilled life.
Melissa:
Hi everyone, this is the Mind Your Own Karma Podcast, and I'm your host, Melissa. I have a little bit of something different for you today. I have an interview with a fellow podcaster. Her name is Cheryl-Anne. She has become a great resource to me, and someone that I can rely on to give me feedback and just become a really good friend. Cheryl-Anne is a transformational coach, and the host of the podcast Becoming Lauren: Embracing the Goddess Within. Cheryl-Anne likes to inspire women to break free from the mold created through years of societal conditioning and generational programming. So, we'll get into exactly what that means in the interview. Her vision for her clients and her podcast listeners is to help them learn to love themselves into a happier and more fulfilled life. And I've included in the links below, and in the episode notes, if you'd like to find her podcast and social media information. The Facebook group is called Calling All Goddesses, so you can find her there as well. So, sit back and relax, and without further ado, here is my interview with Cheryl-Anne. Hi, Cheryl-Anne.
Cheryl-Anne:
Hi.
Melissa:
So, it's interesting, because like I said in the intro, your podcast is called Becoming Lauren. But Lauren is not your name.
Cheryl-Anne:
I know.
Melissa:
So, do you have a multiple personality thing going on?
Cheryl-Anne:
You know what, you're not alone in that. I've gotten that a lot, actually. A lot of strange looks over, "What? What do you... Lauren?" So, basically, Lauren is my inner goddess. Lauren is... She speaks her truth, she has boundaries, she isn't a marshmallow. So, I was always a marshmallow. I've grown up as a marshmallow. And then, my inner goddess, Lauren, started showing up. And I'm embracing Lauren now, actually more than Cheryl-Anne. To me, it's really funny. I associate my... Okay, let's be honest. I really never liked my name anyway. So, I was adopted, and my name when I was born, my mother, because she wasn't keeping me, she didn't like the name but she named me after her sister, who's lovely, and she goes by Rose, but she called me Rosemary. And then, my adoptive parents called me Cheryl-Anne. But then, they only ever called me Cheryl most of my life. Cheryl felt very harsh. "Sh-." I don't know why.
And when I got married, at a young age I got married, and I decided to change, to go by my full name, it's hyphenated, Cheryl-Anne. And I decided to go by Cheryl-Anne because it worked better with my married name. But, I'm going to tell you right now, if I could... Cheryl-Anne was softer. I digress there. Cheryl-Anne is softer than Cheryl to me.
But, you know what, I was soft. I was really soft. I was a marshmallow, like I said, self-proclaimed. And now I associate or resonate more with Lauren. Lauren, to me, is just strong, and powerful, and sexy, and all of the things that I always aspired to be. So, it's kind of a bit of a confusing thing. But I'll tell you, if I could change my name, if it wasn't so much bloomin' work, because I mean, at my age, my whole life is wrapped up in my name. It's on everything. I would change my name. But, it's probably not going to happen, so my podcast is called Becoming Lauren.
Melissa:
So, are you Lauren, or is there still parts that are Cheryl-Anne?
Cheryl-Anne:
Absolutely. Yes. And I am a work in progress for sure. I'm constantly evolving, but I'm also doing the work. I'm much more aware of being authentic, and unapologetic for who I am and who I want to be and how I want to show up in the world. Cheryl-Anne is a smaller version, and it's weird, because I'm still Cheryl-Anne. But you know what, at some point they're going to integrate, because I'm probably never going to be able to be called Lauren, because honestly, it's just so much work. I'll probably always just stay Cheryl-Anne, and the Lauren will just be who Cheryl-Anne is. Right?
Melissa:
Right.
Cheryl-Anne:
So, it's kind of... It's not a split personality. Yeah, it's kind of a weird thing, and it's weird how it all came to me, but I'm just going with it.
Melissa:
So, talk a little bit about societal conditioning and generational programming, and what is that? Because this is what you're talking about at your podcast, and I don't know if a lot of people know what that means.
Cheryl-Anne:
Okay, so, basically, societal pressures and conditioning would be stuff like growing up... And they're changing the narrative now, but in the period that I grew up, it was, "You need to lose weight." "You need to look younger." "You don't look good just as you are." "Hate yourself and buy our stuff." Right? And it's all designed just to make you find fault with yourself. I never knew I needed to shave the hair on my face that I've gotten in menopause until-
Melissa:
Until someone said it.
Cheryl-Anne:
... somebody told me. I didn't even know it was there. Right? So, they show you the problems with yourself, so you go. "Oh no, I have this problem?"
Melissa: "That's a problem?"
Cheryl-Anne:
Yeah. And then, of course, that's money in somebody's pocket somewhere. So, I think this societal... And I mean, there's also the, if you belong to the church, there's the, "You must do this. You must not do that." That sort of pressure to not be yourself, basically conform. So, that's a societal. But, you know what? Generational is your parents, your parents' parents, what's been passed down. The beliefs that have been passed down from generation to generation, they don't often change. I mean, they can change if you choose to, and I have chosen to over time. But when I was young my father, because his uncle lost an arm in the war, has a hate on for the Japanese. So, that's how that flows.
You end up hating the Japanese, and you don't even know why, because your father hates the Japanese, and your father's somebody you look to for approval and love, you just conform right into that. We don't think about where that belief came, until you get older. Some people never do. I did. I have chosen to. I mean, I always knew in the back of my head, "Well, that doesn't seem right. But, okay. Well, I guess I'll just go with it because there's no use arguing. Nobody wants to hear what I have to say anyway." Back then, that's the way it was. So, basically, familial beliefs, they're instilled in us at a very young age, before we're even old enough to challenge them. And then they're enforced either through punishment or removal of love or approval, which feels like the removal of love.
Melissa:
Right. That's one of the things that I think, and I think you think, too, needs to change is parents need to let their children give them permission to have exploration.
Cheryl-Anne:
Yes.
Melissa:
And become themselves. And check in with them, not mold them into a certain person who they want them to be.
Cheryl-Anne:
Exactly.
Melissa:
Let them have some freedom to choose some things, even when you're little. Start there.
Cheryl-Anne:
Give them choice and let their voices be heard. And I think when I grew up, it was, "Children should be seen and not heard." And, 'You do as you're told." And, "Keep crying, and I'll give you something to cry about."
Melissa:
It gives them permission to be like, "I like this pizza, but what pizza do you like?" They don't have to ? the same pizza. Stuff like that. Little choices to let them know that they don't have to be just like me.
Cheryl-Anne:
Exactly. Absolutely.
Melissa:
Start it young. So, how did you, or when did you recognize that you were living under these conditions?
Cheryl-Anne:
Oh, you know what, I, I knew I at a young age, but it wasn't helpful to know at that time, because I didn't feel like I could do anything about it. So I, I think I always—there's a phrase—raged against the machine.
Melissa:
Yes.
Cheryl-Anne:
You know what? I knew at a young age, but it wasn't helpful to know at that time, because I didn't feel like I could do anything about it. There's a phrase, rage against the machine? That was me. I feel like I always did. But, because I was conditioned and programmed to act, speak, whatever, a certain way in order to be accepted and liked, I carried that into adulthood. I conformed because it was easier. I conformed because when you stand out then people talk about you, and I didn't want to be talked about. I just wanted to be liked. And I think that when you don't feel loved for yourself when you're a child, you're much more susceptible to becoming something other than yourself to please other people, because you're always looking for that love and acceptance.
Melissa:
Right.
Cheryl-Anne:
So, I did that for a long time.
Melissa:
So, when you say it was easier, was it easier?
Cheryl-Anne:
Oh, it wasn't easier. It made things easier for everyone but me.
Melissa:
It seemed easier, but it-
Cheryl-Anne [11:29]:
Well, it wasn't easy for me, but it made things easier for everybody else. Which gave me my payoff, obviously, which was that I felt loved and accepted, and not talked about and humiliated by other people. As long as I conformed, it worked, but not for me. Not inside. And yet, I think, I don't know. Sometimes I don't know if it's a matter of, when you get older, you start not caring as much what other people think. And I don't know, honestly, because it was in my early 30s that I just finally said, "I'm done with not being myself, and pleasing everybody else, and I don't even like life anymore because I'm not living for me, I'm living for everybody else." I haven't figured out this yet, and maybe that might be an idea for the future. Have you ever heard of the Red Hat Society?
Melissa:
Yes.
Cheryl-Anne:
Okay. So, when I was young and I heard about the Red Hat Society, for me it was these women who wore red hats and purple jackets. I don't know where that came from. But in my mind, it was they didn't care. They wore stuff that didn't match. I'm a pretty matchy-matchy person, generally. So, they wore stuff that didn't match, and that's because they didn't care anymore what anybody thought. I didn't think about that. I think that's what I always thought from when I was a kid. So, maybe when you get older, that's when you're allowed not to care what anybody thinks.
Melissa:
You can have your own opinion at that point.
Cheryl-Anne:
Right. I'm allowed when I get old. Maybe because, and this goes back to the societal pressures, that you know what? After I can not stop the clock on my aging anymore, right? And at that point, while there's no point in trying anymore, now I can just be me. Because I'm not going to impress anyone with all my sags and bags and lumps and bumps. It doesn't matter anymore. So, if I mis-
Melissa:
That's over.
Cheryl-Anne:
Yeah. Well, not that it's over, but nobody's noticing me anymore anyway, and now I can just do what I want. And I think part of me is still working on that. I know I came to a point… I had a friendship from a young age, like really young, impressionable age, and because I was used to just letting everybody do what they wanted to me, because I was conditioned and programmed to accept whatever was handed to me, I had a friend, and she was really mean to me.
And I didn't like it, but I just accepted it because we were friends, and I guess that's what I was used to, and maybe that's all I felt I deserved at that point. I don't even know. But all my friends would be like, "Why do you hang out with her? She's so mean, and she's such a witch.” And I would be like, “Well, wait, you don't know her.” You know what? I was always giving everybody the benefit of the doubt. And then something happened, and this was… I guess I was 32, and I spoke up. I actually said what I had always shoved back in.
Melissa:
Oh, wow.
Cheryl-Anne:
It would come up, and I’d just be like, “Uhrr!” It’d come up and I'd just be like, ugh, I want to say it. And I wouldn't, because that means people remove love from you. And they walk away from you when you speak your truth. So, I spoke my truth, and it didn't go well. She didn't like it. And so, she punished me by leaving, and leaving the situation that we were in. We were in a coffee shop at this time. And I was like, “Well, I'll be damned if I'm going after her.” I’m like, “You know what? I finally spoke by truth, and she's going to have to sit with that. She'll be back.”
Melissa:
That's right.
Cheryl-Anne:
Well, she never came back.
Melissa:
Really?
Cheryl-Anne:
Yeah. She never came back. And then I had to go find her, because now, of course, my people pleasing and caretaking side kicked in. I was worried something might happen to her, because this was after we were at a nightclub and it was late at night. So I'm thinking, well, where is she? I can't find her. So I spent hours looking for her. And then when I finally found her, after she made me… She didn't make me. Let me change that. Nobody can make me do anything anymore. I chose to spend hours and hours and hours looking for her. And when I finally found out that she was safe all that time, I was really angry. And the fact that she had done something to me, and because I spoke up for myself, she punished me? I think that was the moment that I cracked right open and I said, “That's it, I'm not doing this anymore!” I was so… I was just…
Melissa:
Isn’t that funny? Because we don't set up boundaries, and we let people do things and say things and act a certain way that actually isn't resonating with us. But we allow it, and then we get mad because we feel taken advantage of.
Cheryl-Anne:
Yes.
Melissa:
When really, it's our fault for not putting up the boundary in the first place. Now we've been used, forever.
Cheryl-Anne:
And that’s where we do it to ourselves.
Melissa:
You want to accept that reciprocation from that person, and you're not going to get it. You have these preconceived of how it's supposed to go, and it doesn't go that way, and then you're mad at them, but really you should be mad at yourself.
Cheryl-Anne:
You know what, and that's a whole ’nother… I'm sure we could talk for a whole ’nother three episodes about that. That's a big-
Melissa:
Don't do anything for anybody unless you're doing it freely. Don't do it if you have expectations, because you'll always be disappointed.
Cheryl-Anne:
Absolutely.
Melissa:
That just does not always end well.
Cheryl-Anne:
And what you mentioned, too, makes sense. It's accountability. We have to take accountability for our choices. I chose to allow her to treat me so badly for so many years. So, I mean, I did-
Melissa:
So, was that the thing that kind of turned you around, was that-
Cheryl-Anne:
Yeah. I mean, there had been a couple of things leading up to that as I got older. Some things leading up to that. But, I think if I were to say, the defining moment for me was to walk away from an 18-year friendship and say, “You know what, I'd rather be alone than let you treat me that way anymore.” I'm so done. I can't even tell you. And the funny thing was, it didn't stop there. It didn't stop just with her. Because it was such a pivotal moment, it was that moment when I challenged my mother, too. And that was a big thing, because my mother was used to controlling me. Oh yeah. With always the fear of removing love and approval. “If you do this, I'm going to…” blah, blah, blah.
And so, the one day that I decided, she said something, I can't remember what it was. And I had already told her about walking away from my friendship. And my mother didn’t put two and two together that I could walk away from her just as easy. Right? She didn't put it together. And she said something to me, and I was like, “Well, I think once the lock came off my throat, things just started coming up. Yeah. Here, have this truth. And how about this truth? What do you think of this one? So, I said something, and she didn't like it at all. So she lashed back and said, “Well, it's no wonder you don't have any friends.” And she didn't like when I became myself. When I started speaking my truth and setting my boundaries, she didn't like it.
But you know what? The difference is that I think some people, they won't like it at first because they're used to things being a certain way. And most people don't like change. But if they love you, if they truly love you, not just because of what you do for them, how you make them feel when you've been people pleasing them for all these years, then they will grow with you. They will grow into the new you. And it's happened actually with my husband, too. So, the timing is kind of funny because I got into a relationship right around the time that I dropped that relationship, my 18-year friendship with my friend, I met my husband to be. And of course the timing, it makes so much sense, because that's who I was inside still, even at that point, because I met him before I actually stopped being friends with her, but not long before. So, because I had not yet become myself and didn't love myself, I didn't know myself at that point, I attracted to me the person that was just like everybody else had been in my life.
Melissa:
Oh wow.
Cheryl-Anne:
So, he was not any better than my friend, really. He was just charming and had some great bedside manner, where… You know what I mean? I fell into… Now at that point, just before my relationship ended with her, I ended up in a relationship with him, and we had a lot of struggles. But it wasn't a sudden thing. So, three, four months after I stopped my friendship with her, I started really growing into this new me. But I never tried it in a relationship with a partner. So, it took a lot of years to unfold. Unfortunately, a lot more than I wanted. But now, you know what, he's grown. And, at the beginning, I kind of fell into old habits because they were so new. I hadn't really developed them all yet.
Melissa:
It wasn't a part of you yet.
Cheryl-Anne:
No, it wasn't. And then over the years, so he also, I trained him, in a way, to beat me up and tell me what to do and boss me around and whatever, not taking it very nicely sometimes. So, I've spent a lot of years kind of un-training him with that. And you know what, he's rolling with the punches, so I'm kind of happy with that. But he is actually rolling with the punches and not said, “Well, you're not the woman that I thought you were.” And I liked being able to use it again. So yeah. We're still together and we're still growing.
Melissa:
Still growing.
Cheryl-Anne:
Yeah. Still growing.
Melissa:
So, what did your transformation look like, then? What did you do?
Cheryl-Anne:
You know what? Honestly, I had no clue. Nothing had ever been modeled for me. I never knew anything about the self-help, motivational, inspirational… All the people that had been sharing this message, I didn't even know who they were. But again, once you make a decision, I think things just start appearing. I stepped off the ledge, not knowing what was going to happen. But then somebody, actually a friend, gave me a book for my birthday. And I remember looking at the book going, “What the…What is that?” And she's like, “Oh, I don't know. I just thought it might be interesting to you.” And it wasn't anything I would normally read. I read romance novels. That's what I really liked. I liked the fairytale ending. Right? Anyway. So, this was a non-fiction book, and I was like, “Whoa, okay. Well, you know what, let's just read it and see." I read both of the books in a weekend, hardcover books. I read them both in a weekend, and my journey began, and I basically went-
Melissa:
What was the book about? Was it-
Cheryl-Anne:
Well, you know what's funny, the book was not really self-help or motivational. The first one was Sylvia Brown, who's a medium, who was back in the day. I think she's passed now. That's a lot of years ago. And John Edwards. So, they were both about mediums, but I think it opened… That was my first… It was like the door just cracked on spirituality. Because before that, I mean, I was… My father never went to church, never spoke about anything like that. My mother, for a little while she went to a church because the neighbor, her friend that she worked with, went. So, I started going too, and then when my mom stopped, I kept going, and it was a Baptist church. And I didn't know anything about Baptists, but I learned pretty quickly that they have a lot of rules, and I didn't agree. It took a little while, but when I started seeing leaders of the church saying things, and I mean, I didn't know we were going to get into religion here, but they just started saying some things that I didn't feel-
Melissa:
Didn't resonate.
Cheryl-Anne:
No, in fact, it was totally the opposite. I was really like, “What? I totally don't believe that.” So, I left. I just stopped going. I mean, I went to another church one time and I really enjoyed it, and that was more of a united… and anybody can come. They didn't talk about rules or anything. I mean, it wasn't so entrenched in it. I would just go for a service here and there, and it felt good. It felt good to be soul. Right? So, these books in this weekend, they cracked open this, like “What the… There's a whole ‘nother… What?” And so, I went to the library, and basically I signed out, over a period of time, probably a decade, every single piece, and I'm not exaggerating, every single book, audio CD, anything that I could find on self-help and motivational self-development. I went through every one of them.
Melissa:
Wow.
Cheryl-Anne:
And then I found Reiki. I just found a person was talking to me about it, and I'm like, “What's that?” So I just kind of… everything kind of snowballed. So then I went through, became a Reiki master. Then I started learning about EFT. So, emotional freedom tapping, NLP, yeah. I just started to everything, and yeah. And now here I am. I have so much to share because of that journey. And coming from where I was, and to Becoming Lauren.
Melissa:
Right. Do you do Reiki? Is that something that you charge people for?
Cheryl-Anne:
No. I used to, I used to. In fact, you know what, when I went through my Reiki courses and training, I did it just for myself. For a while I did it, I was a practitioner for a while. But, I don't know if you've noticed, but I talk a lot. And the really funny thing is that I asked my higher self, my soul team, whatever. I asked, because I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do. But I knew that, for some reason, yes, you know what, I felt like it was a great service to be able to offer Reiki. But maybe because I wasn't talking, it was like, “Well, this is kind of not really where I want to be.” So, as I've been working on finding my passion in life, I sat with myself and I asked myself, my self-self, my big self, “What is your gift? What is your gift? What are you here to do?” And the answer was very simple. It was “Mouth. Your mouth is your gift.” And I I'm like, “Okay, well hopefully you mean talking, not eating.” So let's, you know what, I I've just decided that maybe that's why the Reiki practitioner didn't really suit me, because you don't talk during Reiki.
Melissa:
Right. No, you don’t.
Cheryl-Anne:
You don't talk.
Melissa:
So, we talked a little bit about, you lost some people during this whole transformation. How do you feel about that? I mean, was that painful? Did it feel like you were shedding, and it was okay? Because sometimes it's family members that you have to maybe let go. And it might be just for a season, but sometimes that happens. So, how was that for you, what you feel about losing people when you're becoming yourself?
Cheryl-Anne:
I've really honestly not lost very many people. I consider myself very lucky that… I mean, my mom, I thought for sure that my mom was going to be the… My mom, I mean, I'm not going to get into it, the laundry list of crap that we had in our relationship. But I thought for sure she was going to be like, “Well, if you're going to be that way, then I'm…” blah, blah. It didn't happen. It didn't happen. And so, I did lose that 18-year friendship, but you know what, it's funny because she reached out to me after that, quite a while after that, and tried to open the door. And, the funny thing was, I would have none of it. Whereas before, I would be like, “Okay, you know what? I'd feel bad if I said no.” Because that's the marshmallow I was. I think, because there was so many years where maybe she could have changed or grown, and she didn't, and that was a lot of crap that I didn't want to have to work on. I'm working on myself. I don’t need to work on that with you, too. And that's a whole ‘nother thing, but…
Melissa:
Yeah, but maybe through what you did, hopefully she's ? in that and made some changes. And that doesn't mean you have to come back and be her friend, but-
Cheryl-Anne:
Right.
Melissa:
Hopefully that happened.
Cheryl-Anne:
You know what, you're right.
Melissa:
Maybe.
Cheryl-Anne:
That might have been a catalyst for her as well. And that's the thing. I mean, as I grow and change and stuff, you know what? If that happened now, the way I am now, and she reached out to me, I am in a much different place now, and I'm a much different person, and I do have boundaries, and I speak my truth, and I don't let people abuse me. I love myself more than that now. So, I would easily be able to see, and say, “Okay, well, you know what? I thought, maybe…” But really that feels like a whole ’nother person ago. I don't even relate even remotely to that person that I was. I honestly feel really lucky that I haven't lost a lot of people. Although, I will say that more recently, I have created some pretty strong boundaries for people that were literally draining, and I realized that I had allowed them to, because of a friendship, a longstanding friendship, I had allowed them to, even though I didn't like it. And finally I said, “Well, I'm not being true to myself.” So I told them, “No, I don't… “ You know what, casual, whatever-
Melissa:
Isn’t working for me.
Cheryl-Anne:
It's not really working. And you know what, she kind of just rolled with that. The only other one that I lost was actually my brother, which is funny because I know a lot of people feel like blood is thicker than water, and family is everything, and you can never walk away from family. Well, I tell you that that's absolutely not true. I let go of my adopted brother. My parents adopted three children. I was the middle one, and I have a younger brother and an older brother, and we were all adopted. And my older brother is not somebody I want in my life. And I made that decision after my mother passed away, because my mother had so much control before then, and we were all kind of... And as soon as she... it kind of broke open there, too, where I could say, "Okay, now I don't have to." But I'm also learning have-tos and shoulds aren't the way I want to live, either.
Melissa:
So, if you could go back in time and talk to yourself as a child, or even as a teenager, what would you say? Little Cheryl-Anne. What would you say to little Cheryl-Anne?
Cheryl-Anne:
Little Cheryl-Anne. You know what? What's really, really cool about that question is that I actually... I don't know if you've heard of re-parenting? It's quite a-
Melissa:
I think I have, but go ahead and explain.
Cheryl-Anne:
It's becoming a more common term now. And so, there's this thing called RTT, so rapid transformational therapy. So, I went through a session, and part of what we went through was me actually, a visualization technique of me going back and actually talking to myself, and re-parenting myself. So, it was really cool because if you had asked me that question before I had done that, I would've been like, oh, I don't know, "Don't put up with that crap," or something. Whatever. You know what, we say the stuff that normal people... Not normal. I'm normal, but you know what I mean. I'm not normal. I'm crazy. Anyway. What I would say to myself is what I did in that session, which was, you know what, you didn't deserve to be treated that way. You are lovable. You've always been lovable. And you're worthy.
Melissa:
Yeah.
Cheryl-Anne:
And you are okay just the way you are. You don't need to be any different for anybody. I think, you know what, when I went back and I actually told myself that in that visualization technique, oh my goodness. By telling myself that, "Listen, man, I've got you. Nobody's going to hurt you while I'm around. You don't have to live there anymore. You don't have to hurt anymore because I've got you. And look where I am now. We're all good. See, look at what I've got here. We're all good. So, you're lovable, you're worthy, and you always were, and you didn't deserve the crap that was heaped on you, and you don't have to suffer anymore." That's that. That was really deep. I'm sorry. I kinda went really deep with that one, but yeah. That's what I would tell my little Cheryl-Anne.
Melissa:
Little Cheryl-Anne. So yeah, I think nowadays parents are parenting differently and allowing kids to kind of express themselves more at earlier ages and stuff. And I wish that I would've done that with my kids, or someone would've told me. So, I hope that having these conversations inspires some of that in some of the parents with these younger kids and letting them do those things when they're young, instead of kind of controlling everything, and then you send them out to the world, and they have no idea how to adult.
Cheryl-Anne:
Absolutely.
Melissa:
And now you're going to make bigger mistakes than if you would let them do it in the safety net of having you around.
Cheryl-Anne:
Absolutely.
Melissa:
I think that's so, so big, teaching kids mindfulness, teaching them to live in the moment, letting them have a voice, telling them what you told little Cheryl-Anne that you matter, your voice matters, your feelings matter, all that stuff. How to do healthy boundaries, and all that, is just so important. You teach that at a young age, and it just becomes routine, just a part of them. And I think that's so important.
Cheryl-Anne:
You've got to start young. Got to start young. Because the thing is, if you don't introduce that right away, if that's not your way of being, it's a little more work to get them to accept it. Right? But you know what, it's never too late to start. It's never too late to start. Better late than never. But, yeah. Imagine, just imagine what the world would be if we could get it right from the beginning, get them from... Instead of conditioning and programming them to be little us-es walking around. What a gift that would be to the world.
Melissa:
It would.
Cheryl-Anne:
And somebody's going, I don't know, have a program about that.
Melissa: Maybe us. Cheryl-Anne:
You know what? That's a great conversation to have, for sure.
Melissa:
Well, I enjoyed having you today.
Cheryl-Anne:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Melissa:
And I know we're going to be doing this probably a few more times with other subjects, so it would be so fun to have you back on at some point.
Cheryl-Anne:
Thank you.
I had so much fun interviewing Cheryl-Anne, and I'm sure I will have her back on because there's so many other subjects that we want to talk about together. But I do want to go back and talk a little bit about generational conditioning. There's just so many different facets of our lives that generational conditioning can affect. So, things just like traditional traditions that we have in the family, cultural, racial, economic, societal, educational, and obviously religious beliefs are a big one, and I think it's always a good thing to kind of analyze that for ourselves. And, it kind of becomes a robotic thing, that this generation did it, my parents did it, I'm doing it, I'm passing it to my kids. And it's something that we really do need to examine and see if those things actually fit us, and it could even change over time.
And as a child, as we were saying, I don't think that we realize that some of these things have been ingrained in us. And as you get older, that you need to see if that label, that tradition or belief, actually fits you. So, analyzing for ourselves those things, and seeing if those are really serving us, and if those things are something that we still believe or want to believe.
And the other thing that I think is just so, so important is to check in with our kids. And as I said last week in the podcast, is your child able to be authentic to you? Do they feel safe, revealing who they are to you? Do they feel safe that there's going to be no judgment there, and that whatever they say to you isn't going to change your love for them as a parent?
I think that if your child is happy, healthy and self-sufficient, and not hurting another person in what they're doing or what they're believing, then I think you should just be happy for them, and accept them for the way they are. So, what generational conditioning are you handing down to the generations that you are raising, and the generations that you are influencing? And as Cheryl-Anne said in her interview, that someone in her family didn't like Japanese people because that was something that had been handed down, and a lot of times I think that we feel like we need to hold that torch for the generations even that had come before us. And just like Cheryl-Anne's story, some of this generational conditioning can be hurtful and racist, and those are definitely things that need to be looked at and eradicated. And I see this quite a bit in just people that I've been meeting, even recently, this exact subject. And my feeling on it is, I feel like this is a place where a lot of people get stuck, because they feel that responsibility to keep carrying that torch from generations back, for whatever that past generation went through.
And I would never, ever minimize that, and would never ask you to forget and move on, because I can appreciate the deep hurt that some of those things can cause you, even if it wasn't directly related to your life. I guess the question I would ask is, what kind of torch are you carrying? Are you carrying a torch that is going to light up the world for change, or are you carrying a torch full of anger, hatred, hurt and revenge? And what torch is going to bring about the change that you are wanting to bring to the world? Is it the torch that's going to light up the world in a positive way, or is it the torch that's going to burn it down? Sometimes we feel like if we let go of the anger and hurt that we're feeling, that we're forgetting and that we're forgiving, and that's not the case. I think you should feel the hurt, and all of that that you need to get out, but then ask yourself, "What's going to bring about the change I want to see?"
And maybe even more importantly, what would your ancestors say? Would they want you to make a positive change, a positive change for your generation, and the generations to come? And what would that look like? And how can you do that? And I don't want to imply that letting go is easy, because it's not. It's not easy to let go of a lot of these generational and societal labels and traditions that have been ingrained in us. It's not easy. But what I am saying is, again, just to look at the bigger picture, and how are you going to bring about the change that you want to see?
What does that look like? Because just one person could make such a huge impact. One person can affect an entire new generation, and then those generations will affect the next generations. It could be huge. And there's going to be people in society that are still going to have those prejudices, and going to keep holding onto their generational baggage. You might not change everyone's mind. In fact, you're not going to change everyone's mind, and you don't have to change everyone's mind. That's their own karma. So, what's the karma that you're going to put out? If you're carrying that torch of hatred and hurt, and you're waiting for whoever it is to come and throw a bucket of water on your torch and say they're sorry, that they're going to change their ways, you might not get that. So, you're just going to stay in that place of hatred and hurt.
But what is that showing everyone around you? What is that showing that little child that's watching you, that little niece or nephew, that little child of yours? What is that showing them? Is it bringing about the change that you want to see in the world? Sometimes we're waiting for that apology, or for someone to tell us, "You know what? You were right." And we're just waiting for that. And we feel like we need that to move on, that we'll have some kind of validation, but it's just delaying the good that can happen. And you're giving someone else control of you, and every positive thing that you could do in the world. You're allowing someone to slow that process of maybe what you were meant to do in this world. It's delaying your happiness, it's delaying your future. Who knows what it could be delaying, because you're allowing someone or something to paralyze you.
It's such a process to unravel a lot of that, because we're talking about feelings, and feelings are just an indicator of where we're at in life. So, just analyze that. And, like I said, just ask yourself, is this the direction that you want to go? Is this the image of yourself that you want to portray to make the change that you are wanting to see? I think if you try and look at the bigger picture and make it bigger than yourself and just your little circle, and actually see that you can make a big difference, I think that's a great start.
So, to change the subject just a tiny bit, I always like to give a little personal story about myself to kind of be more personable and authentic to you guys. So, one of the things that I had to analyze for myself when I got older was religion. I grew up Catholic, and did all the baptism, catechism, all that good stuff. I got married in the Catholic Church. So, if you've ever been to a Catholic service, you know that it is very structured and traditional, and you say a lot of the same things every service, at the same time, and you kneel here, and you cross there, and there's just so much. And if it's your first time in the Catholic Church, you're going to feel totally lost, and probably like you don't know what the heck you're doing. You might even feel a little bit intimidated by all of it.
But since I grew up in the Catholic Church, I knew how to do all of the things. But it was very robotic. But I just remember also feeling kind of arrogant that I was Catholic, and that I knew all these traditions. And I would go to church and knew when to do what and say this and that. And then one day, I was thinking about... I think it was maybe lent or something, and I'm like, "Why am I doing this?" I started questioning it. Like, "What's the meaning behind it? I don't even know why I'm doing this. Why am I doing this?" If somebody asked me, I wouldn't know what to say, necessarily, but it just looked cool that I was doing it. "Oh, I'm giving this up for 40 days. I'm sacrificing." Whatever.
And let's just make this clear. I'm talking about myself, and I'm not saying that all Catholics are like this. I'm speaking about me. I'm being authentic about me and my experience. And so, once I started kind of questioning those things, I didn't know why I was doing any of it. Why was I kneeling here? Why was I saying this? I didn't even know. I didn't know any of it because it was just ingrained in me, and so there was no spiritual meaning behind it. It was just that feeling of, kind of robotic, this is what we do. And until I started analyzing it, and I put that coat on, I put the Catholic coat on, and I'm like, "You know what? This doesn't fit me. This isn't my style. This isn't my color. This isn't me. This isn't fitting."
And so, I made a change, and I did some exploring with other religions after that, and I just kind of finally felt like I just needed to do what was right for me. I take a little from this and a little from that, and I just try and be a good person, and I try and be a light in the world as best I can. And I'm the first to say, I could be wrong, but this feels right for me. And I don't want to judge anyone, that the Catholic church or any other religion or any other spiritual practice feels good to them. Then, great. It's not hurting me. So, go for it. See if it fits. Wear the coat. It just wasn't right for me.
And that's another generational stumbling block for a lot of people is religion, and you better follow what our family has taught you. "You can't change that, or you can't be a part of our family anymore." I mean, that's happened to people in my family. This just a crazy thought. How is disowning someone because of religion going to bring them around, is going to bring that back around, to where they're going to want to come back? It's ludicrous. I don't understand that. And they just disown people that don't believe what they believe. That just makes no sense to me. What kind of torch are you holding? You're burning it down. You're burning the relationship down. No one is going to want to come back around and join that church again with that kind of attitude.
No, one's going to be want to be like you. You're judgmental. You're critical. You're pompous. Who wants to be like that? And that's what I had to look at in the mirror was, I was critical, judgmental and pompous, and I didn't want to be like that. So, I made the change, and luckily I wasn't disowned for doing that, so I was one of the lucky ones there. But I made the change because that's not who I wanted to be. That's not the person I wanted to portray to the world at all.
So, that's my little personal story for this podcast, and I know I took on two subjects that you're told never to talk about at a party, work or in public, probably: race and religion. But I hope nobody felt judged. A lot of that was my own personal story and feelings, and I always just want to bring food for thought. And like I always say, take what you need, leave what you don't, and I'm not going to be offended. I hope you're not offended. That is never, ever, ever my intention to judge or hurt anyone or to tell you what to do in any way. It's just food for thought. If the shoe fits, then wear it. If it doesn't, just keep on walking, and I'm totally okay with that. So, again, take what you need, leave what you don't. Have a great week, and don't forget to mind your own karma. We'll see you next time.
Season 1, Episode 6 Cheryl-Anne